Dr Nikita

Dr. Nikita Kanani Interview at Queen Of The South Pub 27-07-23 14:20

 

Kate: Please can you tell me your name and what is your specialism and then why did you choose this particular specialism? 

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Dr. Nikita :  So my name is Nicky Kanani, Nikita, ummm but  everyone calls me Nikki and I'm a GP. And I also have management and leadership roles at NHS England, which is like the national commissioner and caretaker of our health services in the NHS.  I became a GP, I took a really funny route. So I grew up, I mean quite Literally,  my parents said come from community pharmacist. Dad's a refugee, mums a migrant and they met her at Sunderland Polytechnic. Moved down South. They had a pharmacy that they set up together and I because they were sort of working. All hours I grew up. On the side of the till, in one of those wire shopping baskets have literally grown up in, in the community with healthcare all around me with my parents having relationships with people and families for generations. 

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I mean, they retired last year and I was there on the last day and I still have people coming. In and saying  ohhhhh goodbye wire basket baby. So I Grew up always, wanting to do something in health and and my parents were not traditional Asian parents.

They, they said. Oh, gosh. Healthcare is gonna be hard work. You should do something else, sort of quite protectionist.

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Ummm But I was. I think I I was always going to. Be in healthcare. And I decided on medicine quite young and I do you think there was something about being a fairly smart Asian girl at school? You know, like, what do we do with you? It's either sort of law or medicine, and I was like, yeah, the medicine makes more sense because it's healthcare and its my mum and Dad's work. So I went into medicine and but then I was the sort of student that just loved every single placement. I mean, like every single place I would have. Ohh, right. Oh, Peter ohtaki.  They love it you. Know every single place. Then I just love. I just loved it. And then actually, I thought it was gonna be a surgeon, cause I'm quite. I quite like working with my hands. I certainly did when I was younger and and I thought I'd be pretty kind of way of putting that together and just fixing. I guess it was really manual fixing and but then I did a placement in general medicine in an acute trust and I just loved the wider. And the I guess the more holistic ability to care for people even though they were unwell, but at the same time also had this amazing female chief exact of that trust. Well, I I. You'd essentially heard me moaning about healthcare processes. I didn't know what to call it at the time. Yeah, but how? People were kind. Of moving around the hospital and she. Said well, come and work with me and help me. It's also, yes. Please and without any sort of training and. So anyway, long story, but I developed my career both clinically and managerially. Then from that moment on together and I just, I got to the point where I was designing this community service from the hospital and and I was working with GP's established GP's and I was talking to them about the services I wanted to create. 

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Or wanted to set up. But actually, what we were talking about was how we give better care to their patients and the one of the many incredible things about being a GP is you're registered list. That's your patients who feel very protective, I guess over them. You want to care for them and you see them through generations sometimes appraisal. Grave care. It's continuity. It's the relation and stuff. And I was listening to that and I just, I just had this moment and I realised that that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be the community. I actually. I think what I liked also was a bit of the prevention side. 

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It was the ability to care for, for families and put pieces of the picture together, I guess, yeah. So then I did. 

But I did the longest GP training ever because I have my kids and I did lots of my management and leadership staff. So I work nationally and I work locally and then now I'm working nationally again. So yeah, that's that's my general practice. I currently do a day a week. So it's thank you. So we're currently doing a day a week because I mean the pandemic vaccine program and then now we're doing a massive organizational merger. 

If it wasn't happening, it was someone else. 

So we're going from 5 organisations to 125 or 1000 people down to 15, so it's a still a very full time job, but I managed to. Just about keep up with my general practice cause I love it and it keeps me. Connected to the real world, I guess. 

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Kate: I find that fascinating. What you're saying about the local community as well? And like cradle to grave, because I I've often wondered how must have, so I'm going to piece things. But how it must be yeah, cause you must see the person or like. Yeah, like the same like generations of. Families so regularly. 

Dr. Nikita : And I haven't. I haven't quite. Thank you so much. That's fair. Yes, sorry. 

(Food Arrives )There you go. Wow, look at that. 

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Yes, I mean, I haven't. Quite hit the generations, but definitely the. Patients who've got children. And they'll be bringing their children in. So you have a doctor. Come on. He's really nice. She looked after me. When it's, I'm. 

Kate:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Dr. Nikita : And you can. Ohh, you just get to help people through. The worst and the best moments of their lives, whether that's in the surgery, sometimes in their home. But you're that trusted person and it doesn't always feel it at a national level. Some of the things that people say and people experience from them and practice, but at a one to one level, but I love it. I love it, you know. 

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Kate: How did you find medical school? 

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Dr. Nikita: So it's really interesting. I went there being relatively uncool. You know, I was really worried about how I'd fit because I found a really lovely niche. Group of girls at. School and I was at the polished, you know, and. I was quite I I I felt that was. Almost more. Challenging than anything else and I. Very quickly got into the the so the medical school typical medic is, you know, you work hard and. You play hard. 

So I definitely did. I did both of those deals, so I never missed a lecture. I loved dissection. I really loved it. Oh my gosh. Apart from the smell. It smelled like tuna. Yeah, that's right. And yeah, no, no, nothing like, it's not like you know and but apart from that, I. I loved it. I love to. 

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Kate: Like Tuna? 

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Dr. Nikita: Tuna, tuna. So you you can smell the formaldehyde, but actually when you spend loads of time in the anatomy room, which we used to do and like detailed dissection, I dissected all the nerves behind your eye and around the facial nerves and everything. And eventually your your overalls and your kid starts to smell not of the. It smells more like China, but. But I also thought there was something amazing there cause somebody you know, people donate their bodies to this. So there's something incredibly personal about her. 

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Kate: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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Dr. Nikita : And then that is medicine as well. So it's quite interesting. But yeah, no, I loved it. I was. I went with my organiser thing, so I did organise the. The Diwali show in 2000, which was a big old fundraiser and we did it at Wembley Conference Centre and raises money for charities. It was like I had this amazing kind of social connection, but that was the year when my other half, who I met in 98, that was when we first sort of started to be really good friends. In 2000 and I ended up, I mean, we're married. Now and we have these two well. 

So so also for me medical school was I look back and I'm like that's where my family started I. I don't. I don't remember finding it. Hard it. It was full on it was you were constantly working or studying, or if you then went out, you'd be up and you'd be studying, you know. So it's it it drilled you to have capacity to work constantly, which is now a problem for me. So I really struggle. Like I said, I never like, I almost never work from home. I could, but I don't. 

Kate: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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Dr. Nikita: And even today, I'm a bit like ohh what am I missing? I should be doing something, you know? So there's a there is a bit of an issue there. There's a separate conversation and but definitely worth, you know, interesting. I think that's part of feminine guilt. As well, you know a whole bunch of other. Stuff is alright and I loved medical school and you know. Pass went through well and loved my placements and I was the one that would be like taking the overnight uncle would leave and going in.  I mean, my husband now still teases me about her and my friends do as well that I he would come in at like 4:00 AM for a really complex vascular surgery emergency surgery. And we didn't be like, no, we wanna sleep cause you wouldn't have to do. It as a trainee, but I'd be like no. Give me another experience. So wow. 

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Kate:  Where You ever scared?  

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Dr. Nikita: A good question. I was always I always worried about missing something. You have a lot of responsibility. Really early on and and you know you. Know you learn it. You learn the stuff I was gonna say. In a book, it was in a book because we didn't really do online. We did bits of almost. I've got lots of. Space, but fundamentally there's not a bit when you're sat in front of the person, you have to look after, especially acutely. It's that fear of missing something which I think drove me to do more and more, so I always. To be able to just. Learn like every procedure, even. The ones that were really. Complicated that the registrar says, like the. Blood gases or the lumber? And chairs. And then eventually I'll see central lines and stuff under supervision, which wouldn't happen now. And it was just like I was. I never wanted to be in the position where. In the what was needed but but it has created a bit of a monster in. 

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Kate : That's amazing. Well, this one kind of feeds perfectly from. What you were. Just saying, but it was about how is. Your work life balance. I'm just gonna double check that it normally just does, but it makes. Me nervous when the screen goes black.

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Dr. Nikita: Still going well, so I'll often have to talk about being a female. I'm gonna do it better, comma. Need it cause it's also I don't. I know I am a leader in many contexts, but it's always strange calling yourself one. So I often have. To talk about, you know, being a female Asian clinical leader and it is the most common question I get, which is great because I love talking about it and but I will say that it's it's not a work life balance. I personally don't think that exists. I think it's a chaos and one of my colleagues talks about it when we talked about it, she said, you know, it's like a plate of spaghetti, but the plates overflowing and you're just constantly trying to make sure that. The the strands are kind of there, so I don't have a work life balance. I've tried to work on some really basic principles, which is. 

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Kids come first and say one of the things that really proud of her, and but it's important to me, deeply important to me, is I've, you know, I've never. Missed their shows, their sporting events, whatever. But what I do, and because I run teams and have done for the last 10 or so years since I've had the kids, I make it really clear, right? I'm going to sports day. I might, you know, take a call if I have to or whatever. But I'm doing it. You guys should as well and even. And when I say today, I mean even this year at a new member of the team drawing, I was like Ohh 23rd it's 23rd. Ohh, right, that's sports day guys. I'll be doing it from the side of like I'll be working from. The side. Of the field. I'll either be screaming. You know, I am that mum. That would be. On the 2nd Baby freak out the. 

Other one saying you've been. Training for this. We've not been training for this and but I want to be I want to always. Be there and so one of my newer team members was. Ohh does it mean I can book? My kids books in. That's like, yes, like, really clear. We work as flexibly as we can in terms of getting the job done in dark winters. We get out when there's daylight, so I'm like, right, everyone get out. But you know your house or the office or whatever, you need some sunlight and walking. If you don't have. Kids, you will have a pet that you're caring for or you know there'll be something. And I just think, you know, that's how you bring the best out of people. 

So anyway, in terms of work life balance. And I always made sure that I would. Drop and pick up the kids a few days a week so me and my husband splitter that you know from help from my parents, we don't have other help. We do it ourselves because I wanna be there for those discussions and stuff and I guess what tip things over, obviously the pandemic, but at least between us, we could work from home. And then when you know when you go to work, we're doing hot clinics of unwell people. And when I was working from home, I was doing my national stuff, say in the pandemic I was. And the team. 

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Deciding what the primary care rules would be. Yeah, and it was terrifying. And we're now going to COVID inquiry, which is terrifying cause he was worried. If you've done the wrong thing. But anyway, at least I was at home with them. But when I was asked to join the vaccine programme I have to, you know, sit down and say to them I'm I'm going to have to be in the office because you can't plan a. National Vaccine program from. Your house. 

You need to be with the team. We have military and logistics planners everything. So we have to just create a sort of hub in the office and and I disappeared for. A year and a half, you know, I was in. I was working constantly. And so that's probably the only time without. That smooch has guys gone really messy because. 

But but I had to do it because I had. To help be part of getting past the pandemic and and that is that the vaccine programme then did. 

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And so we're trying to rebalance again. Now, like everyone, you know, just a. Little bit of. Trauma of the last few years. But trying to figure out how. To get back into that family space and get back into prioritising the kids. But they they do the job. That feels hugely important still, so wanting to I'm. Still, the deputy leader for the vaccine program. And and do my other stuff naturally as well, so trying to. Kind of get. That balance right and and I guess. The the the. I guess I'm not good on analogies, but the thing that I kind of always think is like if you're juggling and I don't know if you've heard this before, but this struck A chord years ago, maybe before even her, which is. So if you imagine, and certainly as mummy juggling all these balls and some of them are plastic, and if you drop them, they'll just bounce and roll some of them glass. And if you drop them, they shatter. And they you can't get them back. So it's like constantly trying to figure out which are the glass ones, and sometimes you, you know, you drop a what you think is a plastic one, but it's actually glass or vice versa. 

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And just so, so I don't think I'll ever get it perfect, but I'll try and have my priorities straight as much as I can. And then I work because I love it. And, you know, even when it's been. Hard and people have been. Going particularly my mum, he's gorgeous, but we'll often sort of say. You need to rest slow down and then my. Dad, like, she doesn't really do that though. 

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So yeah. To make some make time in. My head as well, I did really well pre. Pandemic and then post. It's been harder because it's been much more post traumatic, so you know whether that's reason, therapy, meditation, we do that meditation together. 

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I think that's important kind of parts of all of all of that chaos is that sort of self. Care bits as well. 

Kate: How's the NHS changed since your time within it? 

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Dr. Nikita: One of my first loves was our. Local GP because my. My mum and dad were the. 

You ****. No, you don't. Don't ask our cousins. And yes, so Doctor Wilson, she was a fantastic kind of super powered single female GP. That's what. And was single all the way through. Have some. Nieces and nephews. But sort of inherited us, because we'd always be in the far right and and she loves colours. So we used to go to car shows with. Her. But I. Remember her going. In and obviously it was Lloyd James. Lord George Nate. Do you know? George Floyd, because I was talking about George Floyd last night, right? So George, no, it's and. And then when I went into general practice. But they were still use faxes and everything. Was I mean? I know we're worried about things being soloed now, but my gosh it is better than it was and like so now I see a patient and I can and then I can follow up later and I'll be like, oh, cool, I'll send you this leaflet about whatever and and then they can text me back. 

And they go. What about that and? Ohh, right, OK, now I can text you about this, you know? So I get these amazing asynchronous relationships with patients because of the digital infrastructure that we have now compared to when I started. Obviously, I mean some of the stuff we now manage in the community is incredible in terms of the journey, even in my time in the NHS, which is, you know, I'm 43 this year and we were 75 this year. So you know I've not experienced. A huge part of it. In that consideration, but even in the time that I've. 

Been there. I have experienced over half.  It's, you know, the stuff we now manage in the community as GP's and as. General practice teams. It's enormous and real complexity, and particularly where people are waiting for further care because, you know the treatment, the treatment, the system is so full, we're now. 

Managing things for longer and longer in the community, so the complexity is change. And what we offer both in terms of investigation and treatment and now I get to see kind of the cutting edge stuff nationally. You know the innovations that are coming in and how and then thinking about like how do we deploy them? And then I'm in general practice going. Oh, my gosh, we're now, you know, when we started giving antivirals for COVID for particular people. 

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We got the house so quickly, relatively and I was like, Oh my. God, I mean the. Vaccine program, right? I joined the week before Diwali. So in November 2020, we we're giving our first vaccines by the 2nd week of December. So that that Monday when may no cheese, it was a cheese day that may Parsons gave the first vaccine. Yeah, that weekend before on the Saturday morning, I was with my senior leadership team and we were like, right, how many actions, like what are the critical things we have to do before we go live? On cheese day and our head of Supply said actually he had over a million actions that would have to be completed in order for the programme to happen as and for that first days to be. 

And I mean it still gives me kind of chills. Cause obviously the. A million actions. Can you imagine that because all these things would have to be true. Yeah, out there, you know, in terms of the vaccine coming and landing in the right place and the right people shipping it to the right place, you know, all these other things. 

And and then it happened. And so like our health service from from you know not not really giving. Vaccines systematically to now being able to deploy a vaccine program at speed, which ended up being bigger than any supermarket growth and delivery supply. Ever, you know? And so I just, I think it's phenomenal. I think the the. The people, the community, the the range of people who work in our health service, you know, in our staff, we are incredibly diverse. And and that reflects our communities and that's really important to me. As well, we're. We're more and more diverse, which is which is key. So yeah, I mean, I it's gonna be. And Even so, I will always be hopeful for the NHS to be there for, you know, in perpetuity, for for generations to come. Whatever happens, my children will have a very different NHS and than I've experienced. I have a different relationship with healthcare. I mean already my son has the app. He does through the things through there. You know he doesn't, you know, in theory, he doesn't need to see. 

Yeah, do everything and then he can pick up everyday. You know, so. 

So we'll continue to. Try, but I love that. Kind of. When we were doing the NHS of 75 planning and some of the engagement, one of the people I was, I was leading some of the clinical engagement parts and some of the conversations are ring and some said it's a little bit like you know looking after 75 year olds, you know you've been through so much you know bumps and cups and grazers. Stuff like the. And really big stuff. And then really complex stuff. And then you're worried about how well you'll age and you've got all of these different conditions. 

But, you know, we can keep fixing, keep going. It's an incredible institution. Sorry, my answer's too. Long. They're probably sorry, OK. 

Kate : No, I love it. I. Literally love it. I keep wanting to like. Yeah, it's, it's fantastic. 

Kate :Have you? Or a colleague ever experienced sexism, homophobia or racism in the workplace? 

Dr. Nikita: So myself to the 1st and the last and colleagues to the to the middle, certainly. So although I mean I talk about. The diversity of. Our employees and I mean employees in the in the broader sense. It's well, there's two stories. Or there's multiple stories happening here, right? Actually quite well represented by women at higher grades. But when I went into the health service, it was and it still is fairly male dominated. 

I mean, we have an amazing female chief exec for the first time. So Amanda is. I think I wanna know what's. And is is brilliant and it is. It's very powerful having a woman in the organisation and and just I'm I I sit there and she's there. And so when she wanders around, you know, to go to the field, whatever, with a child, you talk about the kids and it's just it's a different relationship. It's not just about the kids but their. Because yeah. Yeah, but I think I know just just having fun. It is. It's a. It's a type of, I guess, a humility or connection based on gender, which is really powerful and and. And it it makes it really clear. I mean we know anyway why role modelling and representation matters. It makes it really, really obvious, you know. 

So I but I have. I've I've experienced both sexism and racism, sexism in the context, so you know the, the, the things you might have heard but definitely have happened walking into a room are mainly older white men being asked to, you know. Ohh yeah, I will have teas and coffees when I was more junior in my career. I mean gosh things. All the way through, you know, mainly verbal, but you know, overt to the more sub sub, what's subtle, that's what I've got to say today, sorry. 

To the more subtle stuff like that, we've got enough chiefs. We need more Indians. Nicky, you. Know and it's just. And and I think there are glass ceilings and I think there are glass ceilings that are really obvious and you know tinted and there's these glass ceilings that you can. You can't quite. You can't quite see where they. Are, but you know that they're there and you're. Bashing through them and bringing others. With you and then you finding the next ones on one of the most senior women of colour. 

Speaker 2 

Just get started. 

Dr. Nikita 

That's a clinician in the organisation, in the health service. And so like we have a real responsibility to both role model and. 

Speaker 4 

And maybe. 

Dr. Nikita 

Be present and show people this doable, but also make it an opportunity make you know. Make being in these spaces an opportunity for others. I mean the homophobia. Again, you know, you know, had friends experienced it, colleagues having really difficult times throughout their careers. Actually, there's not a point where it's sort of. Took off. I mean, one of the things that we did years ago sort of make. Sure that. Especially senior leaders had reverse mentors or were reversed mentors. And I had a reverse mentor as well. So I had a transgender trainee and they taught me so much about what to say and how. And how they might process things cause you know what we were trying. 

To do is they're. Right. You're senior white man here. Have a young black woman who is navigating the real world use the terminology, the real world, a lot. 

What I mean is we in our office at NHS England have a view of the world. We hope that we're doing. And we do you there to do the very best to deliver the highest quality health service. But unless you're out there visiting, which Amanda does and others do, or still practising like I do, you, you can get really disconnected really quickly. 

So we'll sort of go. In the real world this. Is what happens, you know. So yeah, sadly it is still present. I still walk into rooms that are mainly. Old white man. So I think it is a find it really challenging when I'm in A and you know I'm female, Asian, clinical a mom. My mum and I love it, but you know, we grew up. I was, you know, being looked after by her suspect, quadrati, for the first five years of my life. So I will sometimes say things that are a bit clumsy in terms of sentence structure and then everyone else is using really high fleeting management speed and so. So then all these things. So there's all these things and I'm saying. OK, you just have to, you know, you're there. You're there in your own capacity, but you are there to represent and want to bring your whole self all sort of work and bring your whole self to work, which is why part of the reason why carried under the presses in the pandemic, I found them really difficult because you were in the public eye. But then equally it was often the only time you'd have. A woman, an Asian woman, somebody standing up there every time I was on there, we'd have mainly women of colour getting in touch. 

Thing, it means so much it you know, so and so in my community are you know, they then follow the COVID rules or they have the vaccine because you were up there where there's they wouldn't last week because there was 3 white men. 

You know, it's like it's all that stuff. It's stuff we. We know. Yeah, but we've we've still. Got a long way to go on. On all of these on. Kind of. Representing people who have protected characteristics and IE people who are in our community and making sure that we shape what we do for them and the impact is really palpable, right, health and equality. 

The gap continues to widen and until we really are inclusive at all levels of the system. Reflecting our communities, those those gaps will just keep widening because we don't know how to design. For different communities. I mean, you know what we should be doing now? You know, if I was doing the height of the vaccine program again and this place was here, I'd be like saying. See clams like. Common what? What do we do together here? Because it in the community rather. And hoping that people will come to the shiny building and get, you know, of course, the affluent English speaking, able connected will do that. 

The very people who need us will not say yeah, journey, journey to go on journey to go on. 

Kate  

Yeah, it's. I'm just mindful. It's it's now 2:50, OK. So I'm away. And you got like. 10 minutes left, so yeah, sure. 

Dr. Nikita 

So should we do I could do. I could keep talking till three and then like 10 minutes of photos. Are you happy with that? 

Speaker 2 

Kate : What would you do if you had the power to change elements? Of the NHS. 

Dr. Nikita: I do think about this a lot. It's when those weird. Things that some people Daydream about, like if you had a blank piece of paper and and actually, I mean this is. Shows it shows how. How absorbed I? When I was a kid and and then occasionally since that then. It's the play theme hospital, which was a game where you could set up hospitals. Oh my gosh, I'm so exciting. Anyway, 2.0, that's what it's called now. I I think it's it's to do with what we were just talking about. Like our health system still is, is still still feel sometimes designed for. People who. Can access it quite easily, yeah. 

So if I could do one thing better. Money. No object, yeah. No object I would I would completely dead. I would deconstruct healthcare. What I mean by that is. 

Make sure that I can create. Preventative healthcare opportunities and health education opportunity. Is in every community centre space, church, temple, mosque, anywhere where people gather and connect as as as as as either because it's the safest women who've experienced FGM or domestic violence, or as men who are widowed. I don't know how to speak to each other or to anyone. I would find those spaces and I would just see this magic pop up of a kind of multidisciplinary team. You could go, right? This is the screening you need. These are the kind of additional health interventions we can give you now here quick. Let's do a couple of vaccines and then cause cause cause vaccines plus some of the prevention stuff that I'd like to kind of really gather, like managing knowing your blood pressure, knowing if you're prediabetic some of these things can literally change lives. You know, if you get in there super early, but we can't do that. To our most deprived communities, our most vulnerable communities. Yeah, I need to work through that model in it. Yeah, because it's complex. But gosh, we would, we would change people's relationships with healthcare because if we did it that way, we're trying to do a version of this, but it's never gonna be quite what's in my head. But if we can really build those relationships with communities, that's generational. Impact, which is outward political control, right? And you've got generation communities saying, oh, we trust health services and then they tell their children, yeah, actually have a vaccine or go and see or actually or, you know, your GP, your health pretensioner that comes to. Your local pub on Thursday evening. 

Is trustworthy because that's what we were up against in the vaccine program. Was like a it was a a trust issue, particularly in our black and round communities, and quite rightly, you know, if we're letting and this is perception. But you know, it comes. With it comes with real experience. People saying you're left, you let. My black sister died in childbirth and now you want me to have your vaccine cause you're telling me to, you know. 

That they these are fair challenges and we need to have a relationship with the Community that is trust based, but we won't do it from our shiny buildings. 

Kate : How do you feel women are represented within the NHS or medical profession? 

Dr. Nikita: A really interesting time which you came which I'm. I'm quite excited to see where we get to. So we have a female chief exec who's got our second or third female chair of kind of all the colleges we've got female chairs of many of the medical colleges. So let's tell you about. Is we for women in huge swathes of senior positions in healthcare and and and and I'm starting to see some big, I love my networks and my people, so I've got all these kind of networks into different spaces in, in the health service and our wider wider bodies. And Labour MP has. And I think now I'm kind of. At the place I've got that. Works into everywhere through other. And we and and. The ability to build each other and to care for each other and look. After each other. It's own phenomenal and. We recently had one of our senior leaders, female leaders, goes through some quite traumatic. It and see for some things you can't play it out publicly, but behind the scenes, I mean literally the minute it happened, I was on my different routes going right this network, right, you guys. 

This has happened so some of you will be able to speak out about it. Some of you will. Be able to. Do things by the scene. All of you need, you know, please reach out to her. Do this, you know. Not not in a sort of demanding way for her to get right. And this grave has a different and like you could just feel the support coming around this woman and both publicly and behind the scenes people. 

Going right, you know, we need to know about this. We need to now do. This so that you can feel it. So our ability to do that now that we're in positions where we can do that is incredible and it it does.  It gives me kind of goosebumps thinking about it and and all of those networks now and my senior leadership networks are not just female, but. Female and brown or black or just truly representative, and that is the assault change. 

We didn't. We didn't have a Women's Health strategy, right? We didn't have menopause talked about nationally. We didn't have sanitary towels for free in hospitals. And all these things are starting to happen. And that's not by accident. You know it. Is because we are. All playing our own different game behind the scenes saying not only will we show. That we're here. So that others can come. Feel, feel that feminine energy, but also we can make decisions and we can do things now because we have the authority and the autonomy to do something, actually will matter to women and and we will have across the need to so we need. But so imperiously, you know, everything up to now to be researched on men. 

For man, you know. And we're the ones that will have the horrid kind of speculate. That's never changed since a white man was examining a black woman on the table with no, you know, open uterine surgery. And then we named expected them off to him. 

Dr. Nikita 

This stuff will start to shift that more female researchers more female. And and analysts, you know, and they will show us the data we want to see not just what's happening. Yeah, to the, you know, the wealthy white men. So yeah. I feel very hopeful. 

Kate: OK, this is our last question. 

Dr. Nikita 

OK. 

Kate: So when you're thinking about the history of medicine or the NHS or just maybe a woman in your life or someone in the wider world, but is there a particular influential woman that you would consider a hero or an idol? 

Dr. Nikita: She wouldn't describe herself as. She's definitely a hero or idol. But I think you won't mind my answer. So in hell if it's. My mum? Yeah, he. I don't know how she did it. Kate, right? I. My dad. My dad was a refugee, so he was here for six. Months in a refugee camp went up to Sunderland, Polly met my mum, who was an economic migraine. They'd also come here with nothing but different type of nothing to my dad. He was booted out of this country, but anyway, she married outside of her. So my parents both North India, but she married outside of her Patel family and which at the time was horrendous. Now they all love him, obviously, but it's two years later, and so she she she met this guy, she fell in love, and so she she. Bucked all the. Things to be with him. And that's not just why she's a hero, and and then she was a working woman. He was running a community pharmacy and bringing myself and my sister up and being really present and like teaching us, we could do anything. We did feel that, you know, and she had our backs, whatever we did and when. People were kind of. Going ohh. Your girls are so. Right. They're still working. They're still working. This, but she she's just she's phenomenal and she's kind of quietly. She's a pharmacist. Until they retired last year, she misses her. She misses that community connection. I mean, and again she. Goes do you? Think I should go back and do something like mum rest for a bit first, you know? 

But she is. She's told me about. Hiring for people, which that? That's the. Hole to the NHS. That's right. And and that that beating why it always, it feels feminine to me, right? And and she taught me that because what she was saying was you care for people and I would watch her in the pharmacy and she was, you know, my dad was also a bit more. I mean, he's he's a he's a bit of a herity, but he was always a bit more sort of male about and she was like alright and sort of. And how about, Oh my gosh. Got right. I will get somebody to come and give your medicines way before we used to do. 

 

Deliveries, you know. And then and and how's your and houses? And she, she would create these little care bubbles around people and. And that's what the NHS is about for me. So yeah, it would it. Would have to be her. 

Kate  

That's fantastic. Thank you. I I really just appreciate like coming in and giving me your time as well and I loved. All of your answers. 

Dr. Nikita 

Thank you. I it's really important what? You're doing, I mean it. Isn't normally the sort of thing I do, but I'm very I did a a little. Yeah. And then. Thing with the College of GP's? Not not. Specifically about me, but about. I think that's. It's like a time capsule for the pandemic, so that in 50 years we can look back. And so it's quite operational in terms of what we did and what happened. And again, I would have, I would traditionally not have done things like that, which are quite introspective. I guess about me and out there and yeah, but I just feel like. On this agenda. On what you described in your e-mail. I'm so worried. That we'll lose that amazing energy that we've. Got and that connected this and I want I. It's perk. It's, you know that we've been trying. So behind the scenes, but also very overtly like we are trying to change the agenda. And it has to be captured somehow and and I can't write or paint. So thank you for what you're doing. 

Kate  

I know. Thank you. Pause.